Author Topic: Are you for peace or war?  (Read 6852 times)

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faded_halo

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Are you for peace or war?
« on: January 19, 2006, 02:17:34 PM »
I was asked the same question today... and I wondered... what do you think?  :-\

Offline davidAZ

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2006, 03:13:09 PM »
Tough issue for sure
Politicians and the media have had a big hand in shaping public opinion, so when I hear people speak out, it seems that I keep hearing echos, that many people aren't really thinking for themselves.

There's no right or wrong answer, just mistakes to be considered.  If everyone pulls out now, then we risk a more loathsome dictator gaining control.  If we stay indefinitely, the protection of our own soil will become weakened.

I don't believe Iraq was about WMD when it began.  I think that those we're the key words that the media latched on to, and because it gained the public opinions, the White House had little choice but to speak the language.
I think, that from the beginning, this was about:

dispersing the terrorist cells that thrived in the land
gaining control of a foothold into the middle east to access Iran, Saudi Arabia, and so on
overthrowing a dictator that oppressed a nation, before it fell into the hands of one of his sons
and I believe that it was an experiment of freedom, could the US breed freedom when the citizens were too beaten down to begin it themselves?

also, from the very beginning, the White House warned that it would take time to complete its goals.  But it took about five weeks before the naysayers began lighting the torches.

Has Washington made mistakes, absolutely.  Could things have been done differently, absolutely.  Hindsight is 20/20, but where might we be if we were still simply looking over the fence from Kuwait and wondering what they were doing?  Everybody has the good of the country in mind.
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Offline Keith

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2006, 04:03:44 PM »
I'm sitting right on the fence on this one..   If the war is over oil, then no, it isn't worth it.   If the war is over terrorisim, then yes.    Like David said, once the media  gets in on it things change.  I dont' always believe what the media says and when I do, I take it with a grain of salt.   I was for the war in the beginning.  When the WTCs were attacked, I was so pissed.   I read where it was the US that did it.  I still don't believe that, I mean, could we do that to our own people? 

I think that the US does stick it's nose in way too many places that it shouldn't.   I'm a big believer in I won't mess with him until he messes with me.  We got messed with, and we started kicking ass. 

I have heard that we are thinking of invading Iran.   Any truth to that?

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Offline davidAZ

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2006, 04:16:08 PM »
Iran seems to be getting noticed a lot more, for sure.
However, I think we might see the other extreme on that issue.  Bush isn't going to risk a conflict at the end of his presidency, he's got enough problems as it is.  And whoever comes in after him will probably be elected for promises of getting us out of war.  So we might see some cloak and dagger secret missions in Iran, but I doubt that we'll have the position and resources to even consider war.
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Offline Keith

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2006, 10:53:40 PM »
We as a nation need to start taking care of our own first and foremost.   I am getting real sick of helping other countries out before we help our own citizens.  I mean, I see it on the news all the time.  People from other countries burning our flag and saying pretty much how we suck.  Then when something bad happens like a natural disaster who is the first country to supply aid and money?   Yes, the United States! 

I also think that Bush won't care about trying to get us out of war before his presidency runs out because he can't be elected again next term.  Unless he does or cares about another Republican getting in office, but I think that may be out of the question next time around unless Hillary Clinton wins the Democratic nomination.   Just my 2 cents..

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Stratman

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2006, 10:48:32 PM »
I'm sitting right on the fence on this one..   If the war is over oil, then no, it isn't worth it. 

I work with the guy (Keith) and I can tell you... he may SAY he's sitting on the fence, but his lifestyle says otherwise. I'm not saying that the war was about oil (I hope it wasn't) but even if it was, (I'm just asking a question here) is that such a terrible thing? Or should we go back to the horse & buggy. We have become such a spoiled society here in 2006, could we ever go back? I like my cell phone. I like DRIVING wherever I want, whenever I want. I like a nice warm house and a nice hot shower once in a while. Is that so wrong? I'm sick and tired of having to defend this war that I (probably naively) hope was about freeing people from a dictatorial regime but may in fact have been about oil. Am I way off base here? I don't want to start an argument but as a veteran, I guess I'll always feel the need to support the Commander-n-Chief.

faded_halo

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2006, 02:59:29 AM »
I have to disagree. I am sure terrorism had at the least a little to do with the war. Lord knows Saddam is no angel, but if oil played a big part for this war, then I say it was not worth it. I also love hot showers and driving on command but if that comes at the price of children dying...then I would more than happy to give it up. I couldn't imagine the rage I would have if another country invaded the U.S. and bombed my children so the can have hot water and take thier kids to see King's Island. I am for the wars on terrorism, they did **ck up when the did 9-11, that was 100% wrong, I am a "don't get mad, get even" sort of guy. But on the other hand, I love children too. No amount of oil is worth 1 childs life. I don't want an argument either...this is just my opinion.

Stratman

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2006, 05:08:37 AM »
Jay,
     Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm the father of a college student, and I would give my life to save his or his mother. I believe the war IS about terrorism, I hope I'm not being naive about it, though (I'm a SIMPLE GUY). All I'm saying is, after 6 years in the Navy and seeing with my own eyes how world governments twist and turn in ways that don't always make it to the newspaper, it wouldn't suprise me one bit to find out YEARS from now that it had ALOT to do with oil. I'm a dyed in the wool Republican (an outcast in Tennessee), so I believe even if it had nothing to do with crude, the Democrats will prove that it did (damned if ya do...). Believe me, if I had been 20 years younger on 9/11, I would have "re-up'd" back into the military to help stick it to Saddam myself. Unfortunately, civilian casualties are going to happen in any war.

                                                               Later,
                                                        The Stratmeister

Offline Ramblin' Dad

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2006, 03:48:51 PM »
I am a vet as well and I can tell you that I do not like the fact that we are at war. However, you must understand that I also did not like spending weeks and months at sea under water, but I did it because it had to be done and it was my duty to do it for my country. That is part of the reason I joined in the first place. War sucks, but to sit back and let the world go to shit and let terrorists decide what kind of government a country has (SPAIN) is complete and utter stupidity.

I don't think we had much of a choice as far as Iraq goes. How can we say we are fighting for freedom against terrorism if we couldn't even back up the sanctions we had against a government that supports and contributes to terror from a war we WON back in '91!! I don't understand why we stopped back then. It's akin to fighting the Nazis in WWII, accepting a surrender from Hitler, then sitting back and letting him dictate to us where and when we could investigate to ensure the death camps were no longer in service.

Were there WMD in Iraq? No. Did we know that before we went in? NO! But that is not the whole issue in Iraq as far as I am concerned. A sadist dictator was running a country, in a way that was against sanction from a war he lost, while he tortured people, embezzled money from the oil for food program, and payed rewards to families of stupid kids that strapped bombs to their bodies and blew up as many innocents as they could manage. Can we pull out? Sure, if we want another nut job to step in and take his place or another country like Iran or better yet Syria to step in and make things worse.

As far as the war being about oil? If it is I sure would like to know who is benifiting, because it sure as hell isn't the USA.

There is no right answer, but there are answers out there that are more wrong.
 




Offline Keith

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2006, 04:22:38 PM »
I am a vet as well and I can tell you that I do not like the fact that we are at war. However, you must understand that I also did not like spending weeks and months at sea under water, but I did it because it had to be done and it was my duty to do it for my country.

And I know that I very proud of you guys and happy to call myself an American!


Were there WMD in Iraq? No. Did we know that before we went in? NO!

Not that we know of or have been told.  But we were searching an ENTIRE country and I am sure that there are still tons of places that we haven't looked.

As far as the war being about oil? If it is I sure would like to know who is benefiting, because it sure as hell isn't the USA.

The only way I can think of if we did benefit from it would be that we will continue to have access to the oil now and before they could've told us no more, period!  I remember I think back at the end of Desert Storm when Saddam (sp?) started burning all of the oil fields, he was thinking that if he couldn't have them, no one would.  So it would lead me to believe that it was about oil, in his eyes anyway.


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Offline Ramblin' Dad

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2006, 04:49:21 PM »
I remember I think back at the end of Desert Storm when Saddam (sp?) started burning all of the oil fields, he was thinking that if he couldn't have them, no one would.  So it would lead me to believe that it was about oil, in his eyes anyway.

I remember quite well. In his eyes it was the oil. It was the reason he invaded Kuwait. His government was reeling from the costs of war with Iran and money mismanagement. Saddam saw the small oil rich country of Kuwait as a means to restore his coffers. He already had the military built up and battle tested from the war with Iran so it was a peace of cake for him to go into the nearly defenseless (in comparison) country and take over their oil.

In a way that war was over oil. Not that we wanted more, but that we stood to lose a great deal of it, or have it controlled by a sadistic dictator. The war in my eyes was justified, because Iraq invaded a soverne country for their resourses, as well as all the other nasty things Saddam was doing in his country.

One might argue, well didn't we invade a sovern country for their resourses? There are two glaring things wrong with that view. The first and foremost is Iraq lost rights to sovernty when after they lost the war they did not follow sanctions put in place and defied any other enforcement of them. Secondly like I said earlier what resourses are we reaping the benifit from.
 




Offline Keith

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2006, 11:32:19 PM »
Very good points.   

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2006, 01:29:54 AM »
Just alittle bit of my two cents worth here.. I'm for the war either way you look at it..  I have to add on the WMD's they were there and I would everyone would deep down know that they were.  I mean look at it like this we suppiled Iraq with weapons during the Iraq - Iran War.  Iraq used chemical weapons on Iran and its own people (the Kurds).  The U.S. is where Iraq got the WMD's to start with and they were there and they moved them to Syria or maybe longtime foe Iran.  Just like in Desert Storm in 91 Iraq sent their small amount of an airforce to Iran to keep our bombing from destorying them and Iran kept them in the end.  Heres where I got my info on  the WMD's and them truely being there.

Saddam's Secrets" by Iraq General Sada who was close to Saddam (Who was not a Ba'athist) said there were WMD and were smuggled out of country before we attacked. he mentioned they went to Syria and other places.

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 10:53:06 PM »
Amen & Right On!

Offline davidAZ

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Re: Are you for peace or war?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2006, 12:44:28 PM »
Why is it that whenever I watch anything relating to current events, I feel outnumbered in this- and yet here, we seem to have a near majority?  The media, politicians, and so on, portray ourselves as vulgar, fighting a hopless battle, and in it recklessly.

I can understand people not liking Bush.  I still think he was a better decision over Kerry, though Bush has had his mistakes.  But the presidency is not the issue here.

Why are our elected officials trying to bring home our troops, clearly dismissing the fact that it could be damaging to simply pull-out?  I feel bad for the lives we've lost, and their families.  But it's better that it is them rather than our civilians in Atlanta, LA, or New York.

I understand that there are plenty of people who can't quite think on their own, that their popular attitudes can be based on what their told.  Not that that's the case for everyone, of course.  But is there any chance that the media has become out of touch with the public?  And since when has the media grown such a lean of opinions?  I want my new reporting to be based on facts and somewhat insightful.  But since the public polls show a majority of Americans against Bush, it seams the the media can conform to the majority and display a personal conscious against the politics of this war.

Sometimes I feel like we're in a nation of dogs.  Whenever the media, or a politician has a bone or a red bouncy ball to wave, everyone in unison looks this way or that.  And the man with the ball smiles because he's gotton our attention.
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