Author Topic: American history's "sad" aspects require action  (Read 4380 times)

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Offline Frobozz

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American history's "sad" aspects require action
« on: July 30, 2008, 08:30:40 AM »
I don't know what's more upsetting, the clear partiality of the media or the fact that under his administration he would tax me as punishment for something that didn't involve me.  In the 1700-1800's my ancestors were peasants in Eastern Europe.   It it just me or does it seem that paying reparations to individuals who weren't alive during the time in question just seems like absurd pandering.

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Obama notes ‘tragic’ US past
American history's "sad" aspects require action, the senator tells cheering journalists
 $2,300 ticket for Aug. 12 fundraiser


http://starbulletin.com/2008/07/28/news/story05.html

CHICAGO » Sen. Barack Obama, speaking to a gathering of minority journalists yesterday, stopped short of endorsing an official U.S. apology to American Indians but said the country should acknowledge its history of poor treatment of certain ethnic groups.

"There's no doubt that when it comes to our treatment of Native Americans as well as other persons of color in this country, we've got some very sad and difficult things to account for," Obama told hundreds of attendees of UNITY '08, a convention of four minority journalism associations.

The Hawaii-born senator, who has told local reporters that he supports the federal recognition bill for native Hawaiians drafted by U.S. Sen. Daniel Akaka, noted other ethnic groups but did not mention native Hawaiians when answering a question about his thoughts on a formal U.S. apology to American Indians.

"I personally would want to see our tragic history, or the tragic elements of our history, acknowledged," the Democratic presidential hopeful said.

"I consistently believe that when it comes to whether it's Native Americans or African-American issues or reparations, the most important thing for the U.S. government to do is not just offer words, but offer deeds."

Obama, who appeared tired in his first major appearance since returning Saturday from a 10-day trip abroad, met with a receptive audience at the Chicago convention. Some journalists had waited three hours for the 40-minute appearance.

The group had expected Obama and Sen. John McCain to speak on Thursday night, but because of scheduling conflicts, only Obama could attend yesterday morning's talk.

When Obama walked on stage at the McCormick Center, many journalists in the audience leapt to their feet and applauded enthusiastically after being told not to do so. During a two-minute break halfway through the event, which was broadcast live on CNN, journalists ran to the stage to snap photos of Obama.

The Illinois senator talked about his trip overseas, reiterating his opinion that violence is down in Iraq but worsening in Afghanistan. And he expressed his approval of the Senate's passage of a major housing bill to help homeowners avert foreclosure.

Obama, who acknowledged that he needed a nap, stood up to say farewell to the audience of journalists, many of whom gave him another standing ovation.


 

Offline Aftrthought051

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 09:18:17 AM »
didn't we give them all kinds of land and already do the apology thing.  Can we move on, I mean really.  How long are we going to live in the past?  We learn in History classes that what we did was wrong.  We could have just as easily wiped it under the rug and never mention it, but we talk about it and discuss the mistakes we have made in the past so that future generations will not do them.  It's over.  Take the shoe box of photos and memories and burn it already.  Move on.
And don't even get me started on Hawaiins.  Sorry to my Hawaiin dads on here, but the majority of Hawaiins I met hate Americans.  They don't consider themselves American even and hate the tourist.  I'm not saying all, but the majority that I met.  At least in Okinawa I could understand why they hated us, w/ our military bases on their land after dropping atom bombs.  So what about those ppl?  They have just as much of reason to hate us, but forget them right, they don't live in our country.  Am I sad we dropped an atom bomb.  Never.  It was necessary to me and saved many American lives, but that doesn't mean I have no sympathy to the ppl there now.  Anyway, that's my rant.

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 09:40:49 AM »
He says nothing about taxing anyone for anything.

I believe that we all need to move past all the race foolishness and really be equal. That means no special programs for different races or words only certain races can use, etc. All those things do is foster segregation and racism. It'll never happen as long as Al Sharpton and people like him can make a buck off of it though.

Offline Magoo

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 09:48:29 AM »
i live just around the corner from a city called Bristol,what was Bristols growth based on?,Black slavery,there have only now been apologies for what was accepepted at the time,do i feel the need to apologise,nah do i f**k,the descendents of which make a far better living than i do,i wont stereotype but you can probably figure where this is going,i dont think we should apologise,we should regret doing it in the first place.

Offline Bill

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 09:49:52 AM »
Here's my point of view on the whole thing.

Native's - what happened is that you were conquered. Yes alot of bad things happened.  Very bad.  By that token, having reparations happen now is like saying "Mitch, your great great Grandfather has been found guilty of manslaughter posthumously so you're going to serve is 10 to life sentence."

African-Americans - while it took a long while for what was happening to you to be made illegal by the government, eventually it was.  You now have the same opportunity to make your fortunes as they come to you.   I wish that statement was more true than it is.   Many tensions still happen today due to racial prejudice and I'm very sorry for that.  My question to you is this.  Do you think a "Reparation Check" from the government is going to make you feel better about it?  Do you think said Check is going to ease those tensions or increase them?  


Offline BobChase

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 10:12:14 AM »
Where's the part where he mentions it'll cost me anything? :shrug:


Offline Frobozz

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2008, 10:16:30 AM »
Where's the part where he mentions it'll cost me anything? :shrug:


Here:
"I consistently believe that when it comes to whether it's Native Americans or African-American issues or reparations, the most important thing for the U.S. government to do is not just offer words, but offer deeds."



Any of the "deeds" would be funded from your pocket.


 

Offline Adrian's Dad

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2008, 10:53:47 AM »
They can take my social security cut out of my paycheck.  At least this way it will actually get used.  :laugh2:

Offline Aftrthought051

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2008, 12:39:04 PM »
Do you think a "Reparation Check" from the government is going to make you feel better about it?  Do you think said Check is going to ease those tensions or increase them?  

and there in lies an even bigger monster.  You pay out a "reparation check" acknowledging that you are going to use money to make it right and accept responsibility in this day and age for those actions of others' long ago, and it is NEVER GOING TO BE ENOUGH!!!!  I can guarantee that this check will bring THOUSANDS forward saying, "is this it?  Is this all my great grandfather being a slave means to you?  I want 5 billion dollars, and a mansion, and 22 acres of land..."  It will never end, of this I'm sure.

Offline Bill

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2008, 12:58:53 PM »
Do you think a "Reparation Check" from the government is going to make you feel better about it?  Do you think said Check is going to ease those tensions or increase them?  

and there in lies an even bigger monster.  You pay out a "reparation check" acknowledging that you are going to use money to make it right and accept responsibility in this day and age for those actions of others' long ago, and it is NEVER GOING TO BE ENOUGH!!!!  I can guarantee that this check will bring THOUSANDS forward saying, "is this it?  Is this all my great grandfather being a slave means to you?  I want 5 billion dollars, and a mansion, and 22 acres of land..."  It will never end, of this I'm sure.

Not quite what I was aiming at.  I was thinking more that it will make many people who aren't African American and hence not getting a check or those that are African American but not slave decended rather upset.


Offline jmack

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2008, 03:03:39 PM »
1. reparations is a dangerous path to go down for the reasons many of you have mentioned.... the slippery slope aspect makes it impossible to come to a resolution that satisfies/is fair to all (all the minorities + all the whites that had nothing to do with anything and are indeed worse off than many of the minorities)

2. that said, it is impossible to understand the racism and difficulty that exists unless you are non-white. no matter how successful you get, you will ALWAYS have to face some form of racism. I'll stop there, but it still isn't easy to be a black man in America, even one who has gotten an ivy league education and has a good job.


Offline Bill

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2008, 03:27:13 PM »
1. reparations is a dangerous path to go down for the reasons many of you have mentioned.... the slippery slope aspect makes it impossible to come to a resolution that satisfies/is fair to all (all the minorities + all the whites that had nothing to do with anything and are indeed worse off than many of the minorities)

2. that said, it is impossible to understand the racism and difficulty that exists unless you are non-white. no matter how successful you get, you will ALWAYS have to face some form of racism. I'll stop there, but it still isn't easy to be a black man in America, even one who has gotten an ivy league education and has a good job.

Indeed.  I would never presume to know what it is like.  More than anything, I'm sorry that there is a difference.


Offline BigCöx

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2008, 03:58:27 PM »
well hell, I want reparations as well, because of the Marine officer who gave my dad cigarettes for the first time as he got off the boat into the Korean War and told him that they'd help him relax and weren't bad for him. I'd like to be reimbursed for all of the hospital bills incurred by the lung and brain cancer those cigarettes caused, and pain and suffering, as well as depriving my daughter of having a grandfather.

boom - there's your slippery slope. I would never seriously make that statement but it's a pretty good illustration of what will happen. A war was fought, hundreds of thousands died, the practice was abolished, and civil rights were finally extended. I can completely understand the sentiment that something "more" should/could be done, but I really can't see a material way to do so that won't create more problems than it is intended to resolve. Sometimes, doing nothing is the only choice when the other option is doing the wrong thing.

Discrimination, in whatever form, has been a part of every society and culture around the world forever, and sadly, that's not going to change in any of our lifetimes. The only real way to make reparations for the mistakes of the past are to recognize them, study them, ensure equal opportunities to all people, and confront and condemn every instance of discrimination. As a white guy, descended from a long line of white guys, I can't change the past, but I can raise my daughter to know that it's wrong to consider another person as "inferior" because of their race, gender, ethnicity, income, religion, etc. (although it's open season on Gator fans... :laugh2: ) As dads we can make the future better by helping our kids to understand right and wrong, and they can do the same with their kids...

Offline jmack

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2008, 04:01:12 PM »
i couldn't have said it better BC, +1 for you

you're so smart, must be why you win the trivia every month

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Offline Adrian's Dad

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Re: American history's "sad" aspects require action
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2008, 04:05:39 PM »
As a white guy, descended from a long line of white guys, I can't change the past, but I can raise my daughter to know that it's wrong to consider another person as "inferior" because of their race, gender, ethnicity, income, religion, etc. (although it's open season on Gator fans... :laugh2: ) As dads we can make the future better by helping our kids to understand right and wrong, and they can do the same with their kids...

Exactly.  I would think teaching future generations that what was done in the past was wrong and should not be repeated would be good reparations to me.  But if you can take advantage of the system people will do it.

 



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