Author Topic: Obama's long desire for wealth redistribution  (Read 10144 times)

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Offline joey791

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Re: Obama's long desire for wealth redistribution
« Reply #120 on: November 04, 2008, 07:38:25 PM »
Okay.  IF the system he is talking about were to mimic the Canadian system. 

#1 The federal gov't gives X dollars to the provinces for their healthcare, based on population, and numerous other factors, such as population density, there being a higher propensity for accidents and other side projects like rehabs and specialists in more densely populated areas.  A province in Canada basically = a State.  So they are STATE run.

#2 Smoking and drinking are very much legal here still.

#3 We choose our doctors.  You can go as often as you like in a year. 

#4 We have many hospitals with LARGE research facilities.  Doctors are financially motivated for new ideas and procedures.  R & D doesn't fall under the health care budgets and limitations, there are many really lucrative grants for R & D.  Any new procedures belong to the doctor, not to the state.

#5 It is obvious that not a single one of you read the comparison in our systems.   If you choose not to inform yourself as to the different systems for health care delivery, you choose to be informed by the very companies that want you to pay for the system.

#6 The government doesn't tell me anything about my health care, I have no increased taxed rate if I get cancer, syphillis, measles and rubella all in one year or over the span of my life.  There is NO chance that the government is going to say "Sorry you're no longer covered because.....(any BS reason here)"

#7 There is NO limitation on which hospital I can go to.  There is no HMO saying that you have to go to one 45 minutes away or we won't pay for your care.  BTW if you have a group telling you exactly what you have to do and which hospital to go to and how they would prefer you to get there  IE not by ambulance....  it doesn't seem so much like a freedom.

I'm done.  Choose to flame me, choose to think that I'm the idiot, whatever.  I'm not going to be responding to health care any further as no matter how many ways I put  OUR HEALTH CARE IS PRIVATELY RUN BUT PUBLICLY FUNDED, you choose to believe that upon our birth a doctors name is stamped on our birth certificate.... 

Flame away.

But to throw this out there you are talking about the Canadian government versus what the American government would do, big difference

ToddS

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Re: Obama's long desire for wealth redistribution
« Reply #121 on: November 04, 2008, 08:26:07 PM »
Bill

I hope you don't feel like you were being flamed.  Your posts have been very insiteful and I would hate to see you drop out of the conversation.  I have no problem with the way Canada does things and from what I have read things are done differently in each providence so it is not truly socialized medicine.  I will also add that Canada does not allow private insurance and strongly discourages doctors from working privately.  It sounds like you are very happy with the system and that is fine but when you read things like you can here

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.html#canada

it sounds like the system is far from perfect.  I am a firm believer that there are very few things that the government can do better than private industry.  Again the government is what has caused the issues with HMO's and such.  They continue to force insurance companies to cover things that a lot of people don't need. 

Just recently in the bailout bill was a provision that insurance companies must cover mental health the same way that they cover physical health.  This increases the cost of insurance for everyone so now more people cant afford insurance.  More people screaming for government help.  Why should someone who doesnt need mental health insurance be forced to pay for it?  This is the government forcing their hand to get their way and it should scare everyone in the US to death. 

My argument was never about which isystem is better but why we should even be considering it in the first place.

GiftedPlacebo

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Re: Obama's long desire for wealth redistribution
« Reply #122 on: November 04, 2008, 10:03:41 PM »
I've heard nothing but horror stories about the Canadian system. Tests not covered, long waits, refused treatment. Quick Google came up with this scary list:

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.html#canada

rocknrolldad

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Re: Obama's long desire for wealth redistribution
« Reply #123 on: November 05, 2008, 06:46:10 AM »
ToddS posted the same link.

No one said the Canadian system is without fault, but as someone who's been in it their entire life, I have very few complaints. I would like to see some services to be available at private clinics (like pay for ultrasounds) but overall I'm happy.

Offline Bill

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Re: Obama's long desire for wealth redistribution
« Reply #124 on: November 05, 2008, 08:19:11 AM »
I've not yet heard of a test that isn't covered by our health care.  I did cover long waits in the direct comparison, and yes there are some.  However, our infant mortality rates are lower, our life expectancy is longer and overall our system is aces in my books.  My mother had skin cancer, it was removed within days of diagnosis and she has been declared cancer-free.  My sisters father-in-law was diagnosed with an aortic aneurism (sp?) last week and is going in for his surgery for it tomorrow.  Undetected, aortic aneurisms are fatal so often it isn't even funny. 

Though I believe Todd did put it best.  If you want to know about the Canadian healthcare system, ask some Canadians.   There are a ton of Canadian community sites like this one. 

We aren't trying to sell you our system.  I personally am curious why there is defense for a system that so often causes the average working person to lose everything they have.  I personally know of at least 3 stories of Americans that have lost their life savings.  People I consider close friends. 

It's just my humble opinion and I'll get off my soap box now.


Offline MnMDad

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Re: Obama's long desire for wealth redistribution
« Reply #125 on: November 05, 2008, 09:09:23 AM »
The reason our system is so screwed up is because the insurance doctors have to carry to cover malpractice is outrageous.  My wifes OB/GYN has to pay 50k a year, per doctor, for their practice.  That price has to be carried on to the consumer, which is then charged to the insurance, etc etc.  The health care system in the US is broken and in desperate need of repair.  I don't believe we should have socialized medicine.  It may work in Canada and the UK but they have populations that are 10% of what the US has.  But how do you fix a sue happy country?  I agree that if a Dr. screws up royally they should pay, but what about the person going in for cosmetic surgery, and they don't come out looking like they were promised, should they have a case, and while I am on that rant, let me tell you about my last dermatologist.  I called to have a mole looked at, they couldn't get me in for at least 2 weeks, but if I wanted to come in and talk about dermaplasty they could get me in right away.  The system is broken, and needs to get fixed.

ToddS

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Re: Obama's long desire for wealth redistribution
« Reply #126 on: November 05, 2008, 10:14:47 AM »
I've not yet heard of a test that isn't covered by our health care.  I did cover long waits in the direct comparison, and yes there are some.  However, our infant mortality rates are lower, our life expectancy is longer and overall our system is aces in my books.  My mother had skin cancer, it was removed within days of diagnosis and she has been declared cancer-free.  My sisters father-in-law was diagnosed with an aortic aneurism (sp?) last week and is going in for his surgery for it tomorrow.  Undetected, aortic aneurisms are fatal so often it isn't even funny. 

Though I believe Todd did put it best.  If you want to know about the Canadian healthcare system, ask some Canadians.   There are a ton of Canadian community sites like this one. 

We aren't trying to sell you our system.  I personally am curious why there is defense for a system that so often causes the average working person to lose everything they have.  I personally know of at least 3 stories of Americans that have lost their life savings.  People I consider close friends. 

It's just my humble opinion and I'll get off my soap box now.

Just to clarify there are plenty of things wrong with our current medical system I just don't believe that government has the answers.

GiftedPlacebo

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Re: Obama's long desire for wealth redistribution
« Reply #127 on: November 05, 2008, 12:42:59 PM »
I've not yet heard of a test that isn't covered by our health care.  I did cover long waits in the direct comparison, and yes there are some.  However, our infant mortality rates are lower, our life expectancy is longer and overall our system is aces in my books.  My mother had skin cancer, it was removed within days of diagnosis and she has been declared cancer-free.  My sisters father-in-law was diagnosed with an aortic aneurism (sp?) last week and is going in for his surgery for it tomorrow.  Undetected, aortic aneurisms are fatal so often it isn't even funny. 

Though I believe Todd did put it best.  If you want to know about the Canadian healthcare system, ask some Canadians.   There are a ton of Canadian community sites like this one. 

We aren't trying to sell you our system.  I personally am curious why there is defense for a system that so often causes the average working person to lose everything they have.  I personally know of at least 3 stories of Americans that have lost their life savings.  People I consider close friends. 

It's just my humble opinion and I'll get off my soap box now.

Actually most of my source for the Canadian medical system is from the horror stories my wife relays to me from her message board. I'm not going to continue to beat a dead horse other to say, I'm glad you're happy with the system - its not for me though, and I prefer to keep it that way.

 



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